Today, we have the privilege of speaking with Harriet Marin Jones, the visionary filmmaker behind *King of Kings: Chasing Edward Jones*. In this compelling documentary, Harriet unearths the extraordinary story of her grandfather, Edward Jones, a Black businessman who rose to prominence in the 1930s as one of Chicago’s most powerful figures during a time of segregation and systemic racism. Through her lens, Harriet explores his remarkable legacy, his role as a numbers kingpin, and the personal journey of uncovering a history long hidden from public view. Let’s dive into the making of this film and the man at the center of it all.

Nikki Carpenter: You came to Chicago to discover more about your grandfather, Edward Jones. Was this your first time in Bronzeville? And if so, what was it like? 

Harriet Jones: It was definitely my first time in Chicago. I had only come once to the U.S. before, when I was 13 on vacation, until I moved to Chicago and went to Loyola University, where I studied for one year. I lived with my grandmother in Lake Pointe tower and spent most of my time downtown. Thanks to Nick Ford, he’s the one who told me the story about my grandparents, because my mother hadn’t said anything. He took me to Bronzeville and showed me around. It was incredible to learn about my past. Thanks to him, I found that my grandfather had been kidnapped, gone to jail, and ran the policy business. 

NC: How do you feel like the different parts of Bronzeville and Chicago shape your story?

HJ: Bronzeville is where I did most of my interview. Afterwards, I took a car and drove all around Mississippi. I had never been there. It’s extremely emotional to think that my grandfather and great grandfather’s roots were in Vicksburg & Greenville. It was incredible. 

When I did the interviews in Bronzeville, they told me, “Oh, my God, you should be careful. You should have security, because it’s so dangerous.” And I can tell you, I felt perfectly safe. I was never scared. Nathan Thompson came and we spent time with Timuel Black. I got to discover Bronzeville and I loved it. Going back to where my grandfather started the policy business, to where they used to leave the apartment building – discovering all these places, the station where all these things happened was truly amazing. So frankly, I’m so grateful I was able to do that.

NC: I grew up in Chicago and attended CPS. I learned about many historical figures, but never about your grandfather Edward Jones or the policy kings and how it influenced the lottery. How can we begin to preserve his legacy in CPS curriculum?

HJ: It’s amazing that the Chicago History Museum doesn’t have anything on the policy business or anything on the policy kings. Most people don’t know that policy is what eventually becomes the state lottery. I think it’s very important that we get to transmit our own stories, so it’s well known. 

NC: When I was watching the film and saw interviews with Robert Sengstacke and Timuel Black, who have gone on to become ancestors, I couldn’t help but feel a sense of gratitude. Kudos to you for capturing that precious content. How were you able to connect with them?

HJ: I was extremely lucky and so grateful that all these people agreed to meet me and share their story. I’m so happy that I got to meet one of the descendants of the Chicago Defender who was so important in transmitting the story of Black people. They made so many articles on the Jones brothers, etc. It was such an important newspaper. Thanks to that newspaper, a lot of people left the south during the Great Migration and came to cities like Chicago, Detroit, New York. 

NC: What do you hope people will take from the film?

HJ: Well, I hope people will take a lot of different things. First of all, I tried to do a film that was also where they would learn a lot. It’s the story of my family, but it goes way beyond the story of my family. It’s one more Black history story that has been pushed aside, that actually helped shape the United States. My grandfather helped the city of Chicago go from Republican to Democrat. The policy business was a very important part of the Black community. In the 30s, Bronzeville, the south side, was thriving. They’re trying to erase part of our history. It’s very important that people remember what happened in the past to make sure that this never happens again. And on top of that, I also am very proud of my grandfather and of his accomplishment in a time where it was very difficult. I hope this story will give hope to people.

King of King:Chasing Edward Jones is playing at ACX Harper Theater on 53rd St. until September 26, 2024. To learn more about the film please visit https://en.kingofkings-film.com/ for more info.